Interview with Ariya (Juliana) Saramba in Kowak

Transcript

I229 Ariya (Juliana) Saramba, Kowak, 31 July 2007, (Kowak). In Swahili and Luo. Interviewed by Jan Bender Shetler and Zedekia Oloo Siso. Transcribed by Nyamusi Magatti. Siso: Juliana in no nyuoli iga mane? Iwacho ni nonyuoli iga maleuny nitie? Trans: Which year were you born Juliana? Did you say that you were born the year that there was war? Ariya: onyuola to vita orumo man okel simu epiny Trans: Iwas born then the war ended, when the telegraph telephones came out Siso: anasema alipozaliwa vita ikaisha mwaka kumi na nane, na wakati huo ndiyo wakaanza kuleta hizi simu (telegraph) Jan: ooh telegraph Siso: ooh mano to simu mikwongo ineno to ne en kanye, niguro gi eudi koso? Trans: where was the first telephone that you saw, did they put them at people’s homes? Ariya: niguro gi e mipaka mipaka mipaka Trans: No, they put them at the borders of the countries like Tanzania and Kenyan border Siso: anasema ilikuwa inawekwa kwenye mipaka ya nchi kama Kenya na Tanzania Jan: amezaliwa wapi? Siso: in nonyuoli kanye? Onyuoli gi Kenya koso gi Tanzania? Trans: where were you born? Were you born when you were still in Kenya or you were born in Tanzania? Ariya: aah Onyuola mana Tanzania Kogaja Trans: i was born in Tanzania a place called Kogaja Siso: in nochaki ng’a? Trans: who did they name you after? Ariya: Ariya Siso: Ariya ni to ne en ng’ama nade? Trans: who was Ariya? Ariya: ne en wuoyi mosekendo Trans: he was a man who was married Siso: kae to ang’o momiyo nochaki go? Trans: why did they name you after him? Ariya: ne en anyuola ochaka go, kosenege e vita Trans: he was a relative so they named me after him, after he was killed in war Siso: anasema yeyé jina hilo Ariya alipewa jina la mtu wa ndugu yao ambaye aliuwawa katika vita hiyo ya wajerumani na waingereza. Emana ochaki? Ariya: eeh jiringo to merwa ich oleo, koro mapek iluongo ni konywola makoro ji dwogo koro mapek iluongo ni Dera dera ji nyocha odar godo koro asedwogo Trans: people were running and my mother was pregnant, then i was born over there then people came back Siso: iduogo iya kanye? Trans: where did you come back from? Ariya: oduogo kumane girongo gidhie cha Trans: we came back from the place we ran to Siso: negi dhi kanye? Trans: where did they go? Ariya: negi dhi Yomagana loka cha Trans: they went toward Yomagana near Nyamongo Siso: yeyé anasema wakati mama yake ana mimba watu walikuwa wanakimbia vita wakaenda mpaka ng’ambo Yomagana sehemu za Nyamongo halafu….in nonyuoli Yomagana? Ariya: oduog onyuola mana ka Trans: then i was born over there Siso: basi mama yake wakakimbia wakakaa huko aliporudi ndipo akazaliwa walipokimbia kwenda kujificha huko Jan: walienda kwa akina nani huko? Siso: Yomagana to nu dhi kuom ng’a? Trans: in Yomagana, who did you go to? Ariya: piny notur koro ji ringo onge kuma ng’ato paro mondo kuma ng’ato odhie koro ng’a mochakani to mak joma mang’eny man onegi motho athoya oko kono ok giduogo oneg gi piny okethore jikedo Trans: it was chaos in the land, everybody was running to random places. There was war and people were running so that they don’t get killed Siso: yeyé anasema kule watu walikuwa wanakimbia tu hawajui wanakimbia wapi kwa maana walikuwa wanakimbia vita Jan: hawakuwa na jamaa wala rafiki huko? Siso: hakuna walikuwa wanakimbia tu anasema Jan: kwa kutumia ziwa au nchi kavu? Siso: ilikuwa ni nchi kavu….Magana ni ne en kanye? Trans: where was Magana? Ariya: loka nam Trans: it was near the lake Siso: to ning’ado gi ang’o kidhi inam? Trans: what means did you use when you were crossing the lake? Ariya: tok ji ng’ado gi tiendgi Kirumi kuma koro oket e feri ni, e togo Trans: people were crossing near Kirumi where the bridge is located now, there is this kind of plant (matende) that people walked on top of in order to cross Siso: anasema walikuwa wanakwenda halafu watu wanatembea juu ya matende kuvuka ng’ambo kukimbia vita Jan: mmh halafu mama aliporudi akazaliwa huko Bugire? Siso: eeh anasema wakati huo mama alikuwa na mimba kubwa sana nadhani wakati waingereza wanaingia watu wanakimbia, basi waingereza walishika nchi basi wakarudi kule walikotoka akaja akazaliwa Jan: labda anaweza kueleza kwa utoto wake jinsi alivyokuwa mpaka akaolewa kwa wa Kowak? Siso: koro in makoro ibedo ng’ama ng’ongo ni, ang’o mane ineno miparo bang’ kosenyuoli mi ibedo ng’ama nyako monyuomi? Gima iparo mane ineno? Trans:now you are older, but when you were growing up what are some of the things that you saw example famine or any other things? Ariya: mmh gik maneno to ng’eny Trans: i have seen many things in my lifetime Siso: wachane gimane ineno kata en kech kata gi odhako ji bag’ ji ringo cha koro miduogo monyuoli? Trans: tell me specifically what you saw, if there was famine or any other things after you were born? Ariya: bang’ ringo no kech nobiro maduong’ niluongo ni “kanga” Trans: after we ran there came a massive famine known as “kanga”. Siso: ang’o momiyo noluonge “kanga”? Trans: why did they call it “kanga” (the famine’s name) Ariya: ne en kech Trans: it was famine Siso: yeyé alipoona baada ya watu kukimbia na wakarudi akazaliwa akawa mkubwa njaa ilitokea inaitwa “kanga”, njaa ya “kanga” na ilisumbua watu sana…..to bang’ “kanga” ni uto nukonyuru nade? Trans: during this time of the famine, how did you help yourselves? Ariya: tok ji kendo kech piny koro nose riu onge ng’at malawo ng’ato koro, kata idhi Kisumo kata idhi Kenya to idhi adhia Trans: during the famine the country was already united, there were no fightings anymore so some people went to Kenya to their relatives to look for food and some people went to other places without having problems Siso: sasa bahati nzuri wakati huu ilikuwa nchi ilikuwa imeshaunganishwa sasa hakuna ugomvi sasa kwahiyo watu kama mna njaa unaweza kwenda Kenya kwa jamaa zako huko na ukaomba chakula ndipo hapo wakaanza kupata nafuu, kwa maana sasa hakuna anayekwenda kupigana na wewe vita huko Jan: alikuwa bado mtoto? Siso: to kech no onwang’ kiromo nade? Trans: how old were you when the (famine) came? Ariya: “kanga” no obiro kadhoth Trans: That famine (known as kanga) came when i was Little baby, my mom was still breastfeeding me Siso: yeyé anasema imekuja bado akiwa mdogo Jan: na mwenyewe alienda Kenya au walienda tu kuchukua chakula na kurudi? Ariya: akina mama yake si yeyé, yeyé alikuwa bado mtoto mdogo Siso: mine u emana dhi koso ng’ama wuoyi? Trans: did your mom go with other women or the men are the ones who went to Kenya to look for food? Ariya: tok ng’ama dhi Kisumu to mana dichuo Trans: the people who went to Kisumu were men Siso: hasa waliokuwa wanakwenda ilikuwa ni wanaume ndiyo walikuwa wanakwenda kutafuta chakula huko Jan: kwa jamaa zao? Siso: negi dhi kuom wede gi koso negi dhi kata kang’at mora amora? Trans: were they going to relatives or they just went to random people to ask for help? Ariya: gidhia adhia kata kuom wede kata jomoko, chon ing’eni nitie chumbe mana jidwaro, Origi gini waneno kwa wathindo waneno ka Origi gini ng’ado mula iketo elwedo ka bangili Trans: both, they went to relatives and random people, long time ago people used to make necklaces and other decorations, so they used this to Exchange with the people who wanted these and we got food Siso: anasema wao walikuwa wanaweza kwenda tu kwasababu vipo vyuma vya kuweza kuweka kama bangili sasa kwahiyo ukiwa na chuma hiyo unakwenda unauza huko unapewa chakula Jan: na hii vyuma walikuwa wanapata wapi? Siso: to chumbe gi gito ninwang’o gi kanye? Trans: where were you getting these metals? Ariya: ikao gi kuom joma riek go, jorachere koro piny oseriu koro ji thi kuom gi kao gik moko Trans: we got them from the clever people, the white men had these metals so we took to them the things that they needed and they gave us these metals Siso: ilikuwa ni kwamba zinaletwa na wazungu walikuwa wanaziuza sasa kwahiyo na wewe ukinunua unakwenda sehemu ambao hawajapata unakwenda kuuza halafu unapata chakula Jan: kwahiyo hasa hii ndiyo ilibadilishwa kwa chakula? Siso: kwahiyo gino emana iwilo echiemo? Trans: so did did they give you food? Ariya: eeh kidhi imie gimo odwaro cha to omiyi mana cham to imbe imiye chuma cha Trans: yeah we give them the metals and they us food Siso: kwahiyo wewe ulikuwa unataka chakula na yeyé alikuwa anataka hiyo chuma, kwahiyo wewe unampa chuma na yeyé anakupa chakula Ariya: eeh ng’ama en gi watne yo nam ku kata opith rabuon kata etho nam, koro idhi imiye chumvi to embe omiyi rabuon Trans: even if a person has a relative near the lake where they grow sweet potatoes, you go and give them salt and they give you sweet potatoes back Siso: hata huko ziwani waliokuwa na viazi, sasa akitaka hata kama chumvi au au anataka kitu ambacho yeyé hana kwahiyo wewe unamperekea anakupa viazi na wewe unampa hicho kitu ambacho yeyé anahitaji Jan: haha sawa na anaweza kueleza jinsi alivyoolewa hapa baadaye au katika utoto wake alifanyaje? Siso: bang’e in koro misebedo nyako ere tich mane koro uneno kutimo kata mana ukonyo go wuone u kata mine u? gima meru nyalo wacho ni a nyathina tinde obedo madit konyo ya? Trans: when you were growing up, which kind of work did you do around the house to help you parents out? Ariya: tok pur imekonyo godo ji, ikonye gi yien imodo, kata idhikelo alot ji chamo yadha yadha gi chak bendo gimadho Trans: the main thing was farming, but also we went to bring Wood that was being used for cooking and went to the fields to look for wild vegetables Siso: anasema wao kazi yao walipokuwa wasichana ilikuwa ni kusaidia kwenda kulima ama na kusenya kuni na pian a kuchuma mboga wakati ule ulikuwa ni njaa, mchana wao walikuwa wanatembea kwenye mapori wanachuma mboga sasa wakati walikuwa na maziwa ulikuwa unakula mboga na unakunywa maziwa hakuna ugali Jan: mmh Siso: kare nudak mana ka maasai? Trans: you people lived like the maasai people? Ariya: eeh moko bende ipimo nwa, eeh iratego ing’e timo gik moko gi rieko ng’ato emakoni ni aah ng’ane kiny ibi tim na gini kama kama mondo amiyi gini, en gichiemo ok omiyi idhi ikonyo go pacho Trans: some of the stories we were told. Bu also if you were hard working, if helped other people do some sort of work they pay you by giving you food to take home Siso: ama ilikuwa kama mtu mwingine ana chakula lakini ana kazi sasa anajua wewe una nguvu unaweza kufanya kazi ile anakuita unakwenda unamfanyia ukishafanya anakupa chakula mnarudi mnakula Jan: mmh kumbe hii njaa ilikuwa kubwa sana? Siso: kech ni nobedo igni mang’eny kiparo go? Trans: how long was this famine around for? Ariya: kech no aah noterore mos mwaka moro orumo ji pitho chiam chamo, koro gimana awinjo ni itimo chon no rabuon kopithi totioko mana mwaka koro ekochiek ekichame, nok chal gi matinde ni machiek piyo piyo TRans: it was round for a while, there were times when we could plant some crops though. But also one thing that iheard is that things like sweet potatoes took a year till people ca harvest it, its not like nowadays it takes only a few months to grow Siso: anasema kwamba zamani hata viazi ya zamani ulikuwa ukipanda inamaliza hata mwaka nzima ndiyo inakuwa ndipo mnakula, siyo kama ya siku hizi viazi inamaliza miezi tu halafu watu wanakula ile ya zamani ilikuwa inakaa kwa muda mrefu sana Ariya: koro bang’e no an atedo nyangweso Trans: then after that came Nyangweso (a period when there were locusts) Siso: ooh nyangweso ni bende ne en kech koso ne en ang’o? Trans: this Nyangweso was is it also famine or what was it? Ariya: nyangweso ni dede mauyo nebiro mang’eny, to dede ni kama oninde to ochiwo mana iwe eloo tee tee ei loo kanyo onyuol, kama jipuro no to kama ikomo godo no ene eiloo kisokomo ni to kama jidoyo godo no mokuongo bende orumo koro ipoo mana ka giyae mana eloo Trans: Nyangweso was a time whereby there were flying locusts, they layed their eggs on the ground and after people start farming thats when they come out Siso: anasema yeyé wakati alipoolewa ilkuwepo wakati wa nzige inaitwa nyangweso na hawa nyangweso utakuta wote wanaanza kutaga kwenye udongo kwahiyo karibu wote ukitembea kwenye majani sehemu yote ingawaje unakuta watu wanalima lakini wanataga, na wakishataga hivi na watu wakishaanza kulima na kupanda watu wakianza kupalilia unakuta yale mayai wametoka wote wamekuwa nzige Siso: to bang’e ntimo gi nade kakoro kiwuok? Trans: and later on what did you do after they came out? Ariya: koro nyangweswo kakoro giwuok nobedo kech madung’ ainya, kagi giwuok ka giny gichako giwuok loka cha koro inwang’o kama oluo oluo to opong’o piny, kata ichiedhi to inyono gi mana piny, kata kuma pii odhie to ging’ado ang’ada Trans: when these locusts came there was a famine, there were everywhere, on the ground, they crossed rivers by one being on the bottom and one on top Siso: anasema walikuwa wengi hata walikuwa wanaweza kuvuka mto, yani unakuta wengine wako chini ya maji, maji inawaua lakini wengine wako juu ya wenzao wanavuka mto na hata juu ya miti yote walikuwa wamejaa Jan: na wanamaliza majani yote? Siso: sano gichama achama lumbe tee? Trans: did they eat all the plants? Ariya: lum orumo tee, gichamo tee Trans: they finished all of it Siso: anasema kila kitu wamemaliza Ariya: koro gweng’ mangima wuon parwa gi jaduong’ Auma otieno ok ginindi gin mana gi kede giteng’o ateng’a nyangweso mondo kik gitiek bel Trans: in my family my husband and his brother did not sleep during the nights since they went to the fields to shake the locusts out of the crop (millet) Siso: anasema kwamba Auma na bwana yake, wao kwao waliwashinda hao nzige kula mitima yao kwasababu kila saa walikuwa wanatikisa mtama kuwatoa nzige na kuwaua, ila kwa ulezi walishindwa nzige walikula yote Jan: lakini waliwafukuza? Siso: walikuwa wanawafukuza kwa kutikisha ile mitama na kuwapiga kwa matawi ya miti Ariya: koro ka gise nwang’o buombi gi koro ka giuyo gi dhi echam, towuok mana gi pien ogoyo koro gi ya kech koko cha golo gi Siso: anasema wale wakishaota mabawa wanaruka sasa ukitaka kuwafukuza walikuwa wakiona wanakuja sasa mtu anakwenda na ngozi anapigapiga sasa wao hawatui wanakimbia tena kwahiyo walikuwa wanakimbia wanazunguka shamba Ariya: koro kane negitimo kamano koro ka kama bel olokore makuar koro tamo gi chamo Siso: sasa kwa bahati nzuri waling’ang’ana nao mpaka mtaka ikawa ngumu sana sasa inawashinda wale nzige sasa bwana yake na ndugu yake walipopata mtama ndiyo hata watu wengine walipata mbegu kutoka kwao na wao ndiyo walifanya jitihada kuwafukuza wale nzige Ariya: koro gigoyo koko ne anyuola puotho ji opong’o apong’a gikayo bel koro imoyo amoya piny emano okonyo pinyno koro emikelo marieba mosiko nyaka sani Siso: wakati huo ndiyo bahati nzuri mbegu ya hii mihogo ilianza kuja na watu walikuwa wanakwenda kwa makundi wanasaidiana wakifika kwenye shamba lako wanapanda mbegu hiyo kwa kikundi na ndiyo ilisaidia nchi Jan: kwasababu hailiwi na nzige? Siso: ilikuwa inaliwa lakini yenyewe hata kama majani inaliwa lakini mbegu yake inabaki. En dede nokchame? Ariya: haha nokochame Siso: aah ilikuwa hailiwi na nzima Jan: lakini alisema alikuwa ameshaolewa wakati ule? Siso: eeeh Jan: sasa angetusimulia alivyoolewa hapa, ilikuwaje mtu wa Bugire aje hapa? Siso: topenjo nia in nyar Kowak ere kaka nobiro onyuomi Kowak ka? Ariya: nyaminwa maduong’ nonyuom Kowak ka, kor ambe negibiro kama kapod an nyako mathin Siso: anasema dada yake mkubwa aliolewa hapa Kowak sasa dada yake huyo ndiye alileta shemeji yake kule kumchumbia na yeyé huyu anasema aliolewa vado akiwa mdgo hakuwa mkubwa Siso: nonyuomi kathundi osebiro? Ariya: eeh thunda nosebero Siso: iparo ni ja iga adi, apar ga ng’wen koso apar ga awuichiel? Ariya: ka jaiga apar ga ng’wen Siso: aliolewa akiwa na miaka kumi nan ne kwahiyo bado alikuwa ni mdogo Jan: na kabla ya dada yake kuolewa pale walikuwa na uhusiano yoyote pale, urafiki ambao ulifanya aolewe huku? Siso: kata ka pok nyameru okend koni nenitie winj ruok moro kodu kodgi mane omiyo nyaminwa onyuom koni? Ariya: mana chiedho gibedo gi osiepe, koro ipenjo bende nitie nyako moro manyalo nwang’o mond anyuom? Siso: watu walikuwa wanatembea kwa marafiki, ukienda mahali Fulani unasema aah mimi rafiki yangu naona kuna dada yenu hapa mimi nataka kuoa naweza kupata msichana ambao mimi naweza kuoa? Sasa yeye ndiye anafanya utambulishi kati yao, na Yule mwanamme anaanza kuongea na msichana mpaka wakubaliane. Jan: na wakati ule wa Bugire walikuwa wameshaanza kuzungumza kijaluo? Siso: ndalo mane ose nyuomi kacha cha wagire gi negi wacho dhok mane? Trans: when you got married in Bugire, what language did the Bugire people speak? Ariya: wagire nenitie moko nethum kake jokorya to nenitie mana wacho dholuo Trans: there were Bugire people who spoke kurya and there were some who spoke Luo Siso: anasema baadhi ya wagire baadhi yao walikuwa wanazungumza kibantu na baadhi yao walikuwa wanafahamu kijaluo. In dala u nuwacho dhok mane? Trans: At your house what language were you speaking? Ariya: tok nowa wawacho dholuo mana koro kake awuoyo kodu ni Trans: we were speaking Luo at my house, just like i am talking to you now Jan: na ilikuwaje huko watu wameanza kupata kijaluo zaidi ya kibantu? Siso: un ere kake nung’eyo dholuo ton e un jomwaa, in ere gimana iwinjo? Trans: how did you get to know luo but you were Kurya people? Ariya: eeh negimako dholuo ing’eyo ni nyathi kinyuole to ng’ato Nyasaye miyo dhok moro, kata ikendo nyar mwaa to nyar mwaa cha opuonjo mana nyathi thoggi to dholuo tok opuonje, koro mano emamiyo kul chiel bedo jamwaa to kul chiel bedo jaluo Trans: Siso: koro un kane uwinjo da une nyar kanye kata meru? Trans: where was you grandmother from? Ariya: dawa monyuola wuorwa to ne nyar Kamageta Trans: my grandmother ( my dad’s mother ) was from Kamageta Siso: anasema mama wa baba yake alikuwa anatoka Kamageta. To monyuola meru? Trans: and your grandmother on you mom’s side? Ariya: monyuola meru to nyar Kamgundo Kenya, kidak Kanyamkago, gin joluo Trans: my grandmother on my mom’s side was from Kamgundo, Kenya. They lived in Kanyamkago and they are Luo people Siso: kwahiyo yeyé mama wa mama yake alitoka Kenya sehemu ya Kanyamgundo ambao lugha yao walikuwa wanazungumza kijaluo, ana maanisha kwamba lugha ya kiluo ilikuwa imeamisha lugha zingine kwasababu walikuwa wameolewa katika sehemu hizo na makabila mengine na wanapoingia pale yeyé watoto wake anawafundisha kijaluo kwahiyo utakuta watu wengine kwenye miji ile wanazungumza tu kijaluo, walio oana wabantu kwa wabantu wanazungumza kibantu Jan: haha na uhusiano gani inajengwa kati ya wagire na wa Kowak kwa wanawake? Siso: to owach nia ere gimane thego lweny? Nyuomriek nethego lweny ainya koso kwa mfano kake un ne un wagire to nitie kuonde moko mane gikedo go ang’o mane kelo kwee epiny nyuomruok koso nitie gimane kelo kwee? Trans: Ariya: nyombo no to kaka niwache no to nene mon emana ioro dhi nyombo kalueny ger, mon emana dhi nyombo kech mon nok negi chuoo eminego, koro ka gistedo koro piny ka udhie tokoro ng’ato uwuotho mana koro otieno Siso: koro tiende ni ki iduaro nyako to ioro mana joma mon? Ariya: eeh Siso: kendo kadhi kawo dhok mon emadhi? Ariya: eeh Siso: anasema wakat huo ilikuwa ni wakati mgumu ulikuwa ukitaka binti wewe mwanamme huendi wewe unatuma wanawake wa kwenu kwasababu walikuwa hawauwawi sasa ndiyo walikuwa wanaenda kufanya uchumba, na hata kama mahari wao ndio wanapiga mahari wanapereka na ndiyo wanakuja na yule mwanamke Jan: kwasababu wanawake wanaweza wakatembea bila ku? Siso: bila kuuliwa Jan: lakini wanaume hawawezi? Siso: hawawezi ni adui Jan: na baada ya kuolewa hapa ulikuwa unarudi huko au ni basi tena huendi tena nyumbani? Siso: kwa mfano kake nonyuomi Kowak ni koro uto nudhi adhia kucho onge ng’a mane geng’nu? Ariya: aah basi mano norumo chon Siso: anasema wao walikuwa wanatembea tu kwasababu pia wakati wao vita ilikuwa imekwisha lakini wakati wa mama yao hivyo ilikuwa haipo na bibi yao Jann: haha kwahiyo yeyé alikuwa anarudi huko kuwasalimu? Siso: eeh anasema anarudi huko kulikuwa hakuna shida Jan: na yeyé aliwasaidia tena kuita mabinti wengine waolewe hapa? Siso: koro openjo ni ato in nisero nyiri adii? Ariya: nyiri makelo thoth nyalo romo abich kata awuchiel Siso: anasema yeyé alichumbia wasichana wasiopungua sita kuwaletea shemeji zake hapa na anasema kwamba wanawake walikuwa wazuri kwa maneno wao ndio mtu yeyote akitaka msichana wanasema wewe kwenda kwa mama fulani yeyé ndiye ana lugha nzuri anaweza akaenda kukufuatia mwanamke, kwahiyo yeyé ndiyo ilifanya akaleta wanawake wengi Jan: na pia ulipata wenzako wa karibu? Siso: koro imbe koro ninwang’o wede koro machiegni kodi? Ariya: eeh Siso: ndiyo alipata sasa ndugu zake karibu Ariya: madala wa kende makelo ka romo awuchiel Siso: anasema kwa mji wao huko alikotoka kwa baba yake alileta wanawake sita Jan: na hii ikitokea kwamba wasichana wengi wanaenda sehemu moja wanaweza baadaye wa huko wagire na Kowak kupigana tena au inafuta kabisa hii mambo ya kupigana? Siso: owacho nia kake in koro onyuomi ka, bee Kowak nenyalo kendo kedo wagire? Ariya: haha Siso: nang’o? Ariya: to koro ma jamaa ni to ma bende jamaa ni koro nang’oked kdo nang’o Siso: anasema haiwezekani kwasababu huyu akitoka huko atakwenda kupigana na ndugu zake hawezi kwahi sasa hiyo vita inakwisha Jan: hata wasichana wa huko Bugire wanaweza kuolewa hata huko Suba au wapi? Siso: bende nitie nyi wagire monyuom kata emwaa kata kuonde mamoko? Ariya: eeeh thoth Siso: anasema wapo, anasema ni wengi sana Jan: sasa ulipokuwa msichana hata baada ya kuolewa, maana ulikuja kama mgeni sasa ulianza kujifunza historia ya hapa au ulibaki tu na histria ya huko Bugire? Siso: owacho nia koro sigana ma epiny ma Kowak ka bende ing’eyo sigana gi kake weche gi nochakore koso mathurka emi ng’eyo? Ariya: mawinjo to bende ang’eyo to mokawinjo to bende akia Siso: ng’a mane nyuso iih mana iwinjo go? Ariya: tok joma adak go goo? Siso: anasema aliweza kujua ya huku kidogo akiambiwa na watu ambao alikuwa anakaa nao hapa kama alivyoweza kujua mengine kule kufuatana na wazazi wake Jan: mmh hapa kuna nafasi ya kusikiliza mazungumzo ya wazee au inakuwaje? Siso: kaa ne ubedo nade un kake mon, bende nubedo gichuo kuma gintie uwinjo mbaka magigoyo koso nutimo nade? Ariya: eeh uwinjo ka un eriuruok moro kata ekong’o. koro ka chuori dhi ekong’o jaduong’ wadgi oluonge kong’o nyaka okoni ni ng’ane wadhi, ki onge tich tu udhi Siso: anasema kwasababu walikuwa wanakaa na wanaume kwasababu bwana yako akiitwa pombe na mzee mwenzake sasa wewe kama huna kazi wewe ndiyo unakwenda naye kumbebea kiti kwahiyo wanapokuwa wanazungumza wewe upo unasikia Jan: kwahiyo hii ujuzi ambao wanawake wanajifunza mambo ya zamani si tofauti na ile ya wazee ni ile ile? Siso: openjo ni ng’eyo kake ung’eyo weche makocha gi makoni ekaka joma chuoo bende ong’eyo Ariya: eeeh Jan: labda anaweza akaeleza hii ukoo wa huyu nabii wa upande wake? Siso: koro nitie wach moro mar nyadala u ma Auma, mane otimo yau gi onwang’o piny kaen gi yadhe, in ing’e nade wach Auma Ariya: Auma nya Omolo Siso: anasema Auma binti wa Omolo Ariya: Auma wuon gi ne en gi roho madongo Siso: anasema Auma baba yake alikuwa ni nabii mkubwa Ariya: koro owad gi bende ne en gi roho Siso: na hata ndugu yake alikuwa na unabii huo. To owadgi to niluongo ni ng’a? Ariya: Onyango wuod Omolo, koro Onyango ni sama gine omake sama roho newuok to ogoyo mana uii Siso: anasema huyo Onyango yeyé nabii yake ilikuwa ikitokea yeyé anapiga kelele tu. Ogoyo ui koluongo ji koso koluongo ang’o? Ariya: ji obi dala ne, mano got Nyamasanda kacha Siso: akiwaita watu waende kwenye mji wake katika mlima wa Nyamasanda Jan: ili wafanye nini? Siso: kaji odhi to owacho negi ang’o? Ariya: owacho negi piny duarore mondo ng’ane otim gini mondo piny okwee, yamo biro marack kok utimo gini to piny biro kethore, ng’ane emo omoko gi gini mondo ogol thiang’ mondo thiang’ oyang’ mondo otim gini mondo otim sikukuu malong’o miduaro, koro egot kama en tieno jajuok ok gedie Siso: anasema akipiga kelele ni kwamba labda kwenye unabii wake anaona labda ugonjwa ama njaa kwahiyo anasema kitu fulani inakuja kwahiyo tunataka mtu fulani atoe ng’ombe ama mbuzi tutulizie hiyo, wachinje halafu wanachukua sehemu ya hiyo nyama wanawapa mashetani yao kumaliza yani matatizo yale, anasema katika mji huo mtu ambaye alikuwa ni mchawi haruhusiwi kuingia Ariya: to kodhi nam, to onyas nam odhi oomo mana gotieno Siso: huyo Onyango anakwenda ziwani huko usiku anachukua madawa ya ziwani huko anakuja nayo Ariya: koro ka nowuok ni odhi nam yoo mana oluo ni ka jojuogi ochokore ikoneni aah wee yorni duog ka kanyo joma richo nitie Siso: na akitoka huko ziwani hao manabii wake walikuwa wanamwonyesha usipitie njia hii kuna wachachi watakuzuia kwahiyo anaacha ile anapita njia nyingine Siso: to nyamin gi nito? Ariya: auma nya Omolo ne chi Kamot ka, mane ochiedho gi Kamot ndalo lweny machon no Siso: huyu dada yake Onyango, huyu Auma ndiye alikuwa anatembea na watu wa Kamot na wa Kowak wakati wa vita Jan: aliolewa pale? Siso: nonyuome Kamot? Ariya: mmh Siso: aliolewa hapa Kamot. Eto nyalo no to nonuang’o nade? Ariya: embe roho mar owadgi ni emana omake Siso: anasema naye pia unabii huu wa ndugu yake ndiyo alikuwa nao Jan: na Onyango alikuwa kama mwongozi w anchi au ilikuwa tu kama anafanya mwenyewe? Siso: Onyango ni embe ne en jatelo mar piny koso mana weche bilo? Ariya: kae nobedo ruoth Siso: anasema Onyango alichaguliwa akawa chief, mtawala wa hapa Bugire Jan: kwahiyo dada yake Auma ilikuwa aina gani ya dawa ambayo alitumia? Siso: Auma to nitiyo gi bilo mane? Ariya: bilo to Nyasaye komiyi to iwuoyo kode kake koro wawuoyo kodi ni, ti ikone ni Auma in thi ing’wed yath makama to iriu gi yath makama, to chiek makama uwuog uchom kumakama, to jok mabiro biro gi to bende biro kedo kodu, koro magibiro kedo kodu ni to itim kama itim kama mondo gino okee mondo ochom mana piny machielo Siso: anasema alikuwa na dawa zinamjia kwa ndoto, ndoto inamwambia kwamba chukua dawa fulani changanya na dawa fulani na ujue kwamba siku fulani makabila fulani yatakuja kupigana na nyie vita kwahiyo wewe chukua dawa hii ufanye hivi kusudi maneno yao hiyo itawanyike wasije wakapigana na nyie Jan: lakini nini imetokea mpaka watu waliamini kwamba yeyé alikuwa ni mwongozi mzuri? Siso: ere gimana omiyo ji oyie koda Auma ni en jatelo maber, gimane mane otimo maber kata lweny mane manoloyo maniwinjo? Ariya: ooh noloyo lweny, nokone yawgi ni un tim uru gima kama kama mondo jogo odhi, kik uneg ng’ato Siso: Auma alikuwa na dawa ambayo ilikuwa yeyé unabii wake ulikuwa unamwambia wewe chukua dawa hii uende upereke ukaweke pale watu wa sehemu hiyo adui wenu watahama tu na hata bila kupigana na nyie na watu walikuwa wanahama Jan: haha kwahiyo wakaona kwamba kweli alikuwa na dawa Siso: wakaamini kwamba hata bila kupigana, yeyé anatumia dawa tu na wale makabila walikuwa wanakimbia wao wenyewe Jan: mmh alifanya kwa watu wa Kowak na Kamot tu au alifanya kwa watu wengine? Siso: bende nitie pinje moko kendo mane oloso negi yath koso mana jo Kamot gi jo Kowak kende? Ariya: ng’ama odhi ire ni olosone to olosone alosa Siso: hasa alikuwa anafanya kwa nchi yao lakini hata wengine walikuwa wanakuja kwake anawafanyia hiyo dawa Jan: mmh na ilikuwa si ajabu mwanamke awe nabii, ilikuwa kitu cha kawaida au cha ajabu? Siso: wach machalo kake mar Auma bende mon mang’eny nenyalo time koso mana Auma to bende ji newuoro ni dhako nyalo timo gigi? Ariya: ne onge mon mane loso weche, ne en kende owacho ni walu ka Siso: alikuwa ni yeyé tu, neno hilo lilimjia yeyé Jan: mmh kwahiyo ilikuwa tu kwamba amepata tu bila kujua kwamba…alipataje kama si kawaida? Siso: nabii ni machalo mar Auma ni en gimapoi apoya koso nitie gima itimo koro ekobiro? Ariya: opoyi apoya, en gima Nyasaye nemii, okoni Auma iling’ nang’o gini kethore kama tim gini, dhi ir ng’ane onyusi gima kama kama mond itim kama kama mondo gini okee nono Siso: ni kwamba hiyo ilikuwa inakuja yenyewe tu wanakwambia Auma mbona wewe umekaa na kitu fulani kinaumiza watu wewe kwenda mahali fulani ama kwa fulani akupe kitu fulani basi nakwambia uje uweke hivi hilo jambi lisiwaumize watu wako Jan: na kwa nchi ya Kowak alikuwa kama mkuu wa Kowak nzima au ilikuwaje? Siso: Auma ni en emana obedo jatelo mangima mar Kowak gi Kamot koso nenitie joma mon? Ariya: kor joma mon to mana Auma no Siso: Auma ndiyo alikuwa kwa wanawake ingawaje kulikuwa na wanaume pia Jan: haha lakini kwa ukoo ilikuwa dawa ambayo ina nguvu kuliko yote? Siso: kuliko yote. Tiendeni ne onge ng’ato mane en gi bilo machalo mara Auma no? Ariya: onge, ng’a mane loye kata chwoo Siso: anasema hakuna mtu aliyekuwa anamzidi Auma hata wanaume Jan: na alikuwa bibi yake? Siso: to Auma ni to ne en watni nade? Ariya: Auma ni to ne en nyadala wa Siso: ne en dau koso waya u koso ne en ng’a? Ariya: ne en waya Siso: Auma alikuwa shangazi yake, yani dada wa baba yake Jan: na hii dawa alifanyaje ili wa Kowak wapate nchi yao? Siso: en notimo nade manyaka Kowak nonwang’o pinygi? Ariya: noguro yath okono jodongo ni utim gima kama, kusetimo kama to piny biro mana kwee Siso: anasema yeyé Auma dawa yake aliwaita wazee na kusema kwamba sasa hivi tumeingia katika nchi hii kwahiyo mchukue kitu hiki muende mweke mahali pa kisiri, wazee tu wakubwa ndiyo aliwapa hicho kitu, sasa wakaweka wakasindikia nchi sasa anasema mpaka sasa hivi nchi sasa imetulia Jan: kuna mahali ambapo watu wanaenda kutambikia? Siso: to Kowak ka bende nitie kuma ji dhie dole? Ariya: Kowak ka con negi timo kamano, con negithi Kojode jabilo Siso: zamani walikuwa wanaenda kwa mzee fulani anaitwa Ojode Jan: ambayo bado wanaenda? Siso: Kojode kanyo pod ji dhie? Trans: do people still go to Kojode’s? Ariya: tinde tok awinji, ila Korokoni ka emena gitimo gigo Trans: nowadays i don’t think people go, but they used to go to Korokoni Siso: mambo hayo yalikuwa yanafanyika hapa karibu na hospital hapa ya Kowak Ariya: kata sani ka ng’ama dhi nitimo gimoro marach to oromogo aroma Trans: even up to today if you go and do weird things there, bad things will happen to you Siso: hata sasa hivi ukienda ukifanya mambo ya ajabu kwamba unaiharibu unaona maajabu Jan: mmh kwahiyo kuna watu ambao walirithi hii dawa yake? Siso: koro yath Auma bende nitie jok mane odong’ kode bang’ kosetho? Trans: are there people left with the medicine that Auma used to give out? Ariya: eeh nyikwaye gin go Trans: his grandchildren has the medicine Siso: anasema wajukuu wake wanayo dawa ile Jan: na yeyé alikuwa na dawa yoyote kutoka kwa huyu mama au? Siso: owacho to imbe bende ne onge yath mane iyaa go kuom wayo ni? Trans: did you get any medicine from your aunt? Ariya: ato koro aago, ok tinde to ooro mana wach an ne koorna na wach ton e ng’ato oketho, koro wuoyi ni ne achake Auma Trans: Siso: yeyé anasema maneno yalimjia kwenye ndoto, akasema wewe utazaa mtoto na mwite Auma na ndiye akamwita huyu Auma lakini mambo mengine ambayo alimwelekeza ilitokea jambo ikafuta hayo maneno, mtu mmoja wa hapa kwao aliharibu hayo mambo Ariya: koro nobiro ka ana gi ich tokona ni abiro ni mond ilongwa tokoro an alongwi to in ng’a? an Auma Siso: halafu akarudi akiwa na mimba Auma akamwambia nimekuja ili uniite. Halafu mama huyu akajiuliza kwenye ndoto kwani nikuite wewe ni nani halafu ndoto likamjibu kwamba mimi ni Auma niite jina la Auma. Ariya: koro kanalongwe koro kabiro penjo mana thurwa kucho to ikona nia Auma nyomolo ne en chi Kamot Siso: sasa huyu alikwenda kuuliza kwao, kwamba nimepata ndoto mtu ananiambia nimwite mtoto Auma. Auma huyu alikuwa ni nani? Sasa kule wakamwambia Auma alikuwa ni binti wa hapa nyumbani, aliolewa Kamot kabla ya wewe Ariya: koro nalwonge Siso: ndipo akamwita mtoto huyu Auma Ariya: mane ote mane aneno Siso: hiyo ndiyo ujumbe ambao alipata kutokana na Auma huyo Ariya: koro ambe ne anwng’o wach makona dhi ko Ojode, to ago mana koko Siso: sasa alikuwa anapiga kelele tu na hiyo ndoto ilikuwa inamwambia kwenda kwa mzee Ojode Ariya: koro emana adhi Kojode to omiya buru to abiro go, kae koko na orumo Trans: thats when i went to Kojode and he gave me medicine (in form of dust) then i was well Siso: anasema alipofika kule Ojode akampa dawa na ile kelele yake ikaisha. To Ojode gi Auma negi lwongore nade? Ariya: ne gin jobilo te kwahiyo negi ng’ere Siso: Ojode pia alikuwa na dawa sasa Auma alimwambia mpe huyu mama dawa fulani sasa Ojode alipomwana mama huyu tu akampa dawa hiyo Ariya: koro kata sani inyusa ni kasenindo jatich biro wuok to joma mane oketho ka bende dongo gi malong’o ok bi bedo malong’o Siso: na mara nyingi mpaka sasa anasema kwamba huyu mama akishakufa katika ukoo wake huu atatokea ambaye atachukua uwezo ule kama wa akina Auma, na wale walioanza kumwaribia ile mipango ya Auma na yeyé wao miji yao itazama Jan: haha ulisema zamani wanawake waliweza kutembea bila kugopa pia labda wanawake wana biashara…… Ariya: [praying??!…and singing]…[words not clear]….wan giwelo wan giwach [we have guests give them information (some of the words that she is saying)]…………. {THE END OF INTERVIEW # 11, DONE BY NYAMUSI MAGATTI}